Page 1 of 1

Acceptance of nature?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:46 am
by confusionsay
I am honoured to be here. I appreciate any input into my seeming contradictions in taoism, but feel it necessary to ask others who understand better.
normally I seek answers to my problems from within. in this case- i am not.

My story is I am 49, I recently started to see myself as a practicing taoist although I dont like labels. I find this "way" very simple, but i have one seeming contradiction to what I know as a taoist.

I am overweight. I accept that I am overweight. I know that being overweight and loving food is in my nature. I understand that the Tao in my case may or may not be in accepting my nature. and this is where my confusion lies.

The "way" tells me that I would be benefit from accepting myself and my flaws as well as my assets.
I also know that in truth, we cannot go against our nature any more than a mountain would go against itself and fly.
So If I hate exercise it would be truth for me that, I could not go against this. Thus I would fail anyway as I have done in the past when I have exercised to lose weight. Is this the correct way to see this? I dont like being overweight, yet I think I do not like working out equally or maybe more. My question is, if something is in my nature that is hurting me, i.e. being overweight, do I act against my natural harmony and endure what is to me tortuous exercise? what if something in my nature hurts others? Can I act against it?
It seems it is a paradox.
any input is greatly appreciated.

Re: Acceptance of nature?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:01 am
by laotan
confusionsay wrote: The "way" tells me that I would be benefit from accepting myself and my flaws as well as my assets.
I also know that in truth, we cannot go against our nature any more than a mountain would go against itself and fly.
So If I hate exercise it would be truth for me that, I could not go against this. Thus I would fail anyway as I have done in the past when I have exercised to lose weight. Is this the correct way to see this? I dont like being overweight, yet I think I do not like working out equally or maybe more. My question is, if something is in my nature that is hurting me, i.e. being overweight, do I act against my natural harmony and endure what is to me tortuous exercise? what if something in my nature hurts others? Can I act against it?
It seems it is a paradox.
any input is greatly appreciated.
Hi and Welcome!
There's a heavenly nature and a human one. The human one is most of the time against the heavenly one. This is why people suffer. Suffering is not knowing your heavenly nature or go against it. Most of the people go against their heavenly nature. Heavenly means what comes of itself, natural, like water which flows downward.

Re: Acceptance of nature?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:10 pm
by confusionsay
Hi and Welcome!
There's a heavenly nature and a human one. The human one is most of the time against the heavenly one. This is why people suffer. Suffering is not knowing your heavenly nature or go against it. Most of the people go against their heavenly nature. Heavenly means what comes of itself, natural, like water which flows downward.[/quote]
-------------------------------------
Laotan, Thank you for your thoughtfulness, your kind welcome, and your input. I will reflect on this. I guess my reflection would be about which is my heavenly nature. At this moment, My understanding, at least now in my life, is that both of these "natures" are at one for me(I hope). What I do to nature I do to myself, what I do to others I also do to myself. How I act I also do to myself. I only act according to natures one law. "do no intentional or unnecessary harm to any sentient being". It is not in either of my natures to hurt anyone unless I am defending myself. I will reflect more on this.
Great Peace!
Doug

Re: Acceptance of nature?

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:21 am
by laotan
The heavenly nature doesn't have an individual aspect. It is our nature as it is conferred by the Heaven. Something specific to the human race. So you don't have to meditate on what is YOUR heavenly nature. Only people try to add to it some specific features which go against it. This is the source of suffering. When we try to change our nature for the better we depart from it.
You say:
What I do to nature I do to myself, what I do to others I also do to myself.
I am not sure what you mean by
what I do to the nature I do to myself
. The heavenly nature is not nature in the sense of something outside us, the world or the earth, or the natural phenomena like rain, snow, thunder and so forth.

Re: Acceptance of nature?

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:20 pm
by confusionsay
laotan wrote:You say:
What I do to nature I do to myself, what I do to others I also do to myself.
I am not sure what you mean by
what I do to the nature I do to myself
. The heavenly nature is not nature in the sense of something outside us, the world or the earth, or the natural phenomena like rain, snow, thunder and so forth.
Laotan, I believe we are talking about the same insight. Which simply means that there is no separation, so i cannot harm another being or anything really, without harming myself too. I know this to be my truth because of my intermittent direct experience of connection to all things. :) what then is an example of human nature? and can we change it? should we if it harms another?

Re: Acceptance of nature?

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:25 am
by laotan
confusionsay wrote:what then is an example of human nature? and can we change it? should we if it harms another?
Human nature is everything we do because we think it is correct, or it is a must in order to do something worth doing and so forth. We can change this if we think it is worth doing. Even if this harms others.