Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

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minmincorea

Re: Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

Post by minmincorea »

laotan wrote:
minmincorea wrote:
laotan wrote:I had retained this quote from your much too long post: Without knowing Tao I am inevitably oriented to worldly things. Can you explain it to me? What you mean by "wordly things"? And, again: are "wordly things" oposing someother things? Name them.
Sorry I missed your question long.

'Worldly things' refers to 'ten thousand things' in Tao De Ching context. By this word Laotu includes all material objects with or without life, mental products like cultures,civilizationd, knowledge, wisdom, fantasiy whatever you can imagine. It opposes 'nothing', which menas that it is not known to me. Nothing is the same as Tao. LaoTsu call the activity of knowing Tao(=nothing) as 'naming' which is nothing else than resembling Tao, which again is termed as De. Preparing correct interpretation of chapter 1. pls wait sir.
If this is so I can't imagine what your sentence might mean: Without knowing Tao ... Perhpas you should explain it further.
Thank you for question.

Tao is known to me through taking after Tao only. This makes me aware at the same time that Tao is boundless and beyond my knowledge. So Tao ever remains as nothing for me. It is certainly a paradox that I know Tao and at the same time I do not know Tao completely. But I become bright[ming] as to myself and the world as much as I take after Tao. By this I can know that I am getting along 'the correct way[tao]' of life.

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laotan
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Re: Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

Post by laotan »

minmincorea wrote:
Tao is known to me through taking after Tao only. This makes me aware at the same time that Tao is boundless and beyond my knowledge. So Tao ever remains as nothing for me. It is certainly a paradox that I know Tao and at the same time I do not know Tao completely. But I become bright[ming] as to myself and the world as much as I take after Tao. By this I can know that I am getting along 'the correct way[tao]' of life.
What you mean by "through taking after tao"? Also if tao is beyond your knowledge what you exactly know in fact? When one say that something is boundless he may have a mathematical view upon. But when you say it is beyond your knowwledge it is only a word without substance. So you don't know tao but know enough to say it is boundless or unknown! I really can't get you.

minmincorea

Re: Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

Post by minmincorea »

laotan wrote:
minmincorea wrote:
Tao is known to me through taking after Tao only. This makes me aware at the same time that Tao is boundless and beyond my knowledge. So Tao ever remains as nothing for me. It is certainly a paradox that I know Tao and at the same time I do not know Tao completely. But I become bright[ming] as to myself and the world as much as I take after Tao. By this I can know that I am getting along 'the correct way[tao]' of life.
What you mean by "through taking after tao"? Also if tao is beyond your knowledge what you exactly know in fact? When one say that something is boundless he may have a mathematical view upon. But when you say it is beyond your knowwledge it is only a word without substance. So you don't know tao but know enough to say it is boundless or unknown! I really can't get you.

Yes, all of your objections are justified, but only in the view of sense and reason. But Tao is beyond sense and reason, so it cannot be captured in a system of concepts, which in general we call knowledge. When we say "I know Tao." it does not mean "I have a concept of Tao" but that "I have resembled Tao to a certain extent." If we stick to the logic of plain words, we can never reach Tao. May I post the interpretation of Chapter 1, which is ready now? I sincerely respect your frank attitude. Thanks.

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laotan
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Re: Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

Post by laotan »

minmincorea wrote:
Yes, all of your objections are justified, but only in the view of sense and reason. But Tao is beyond sense and reason, so it cannot be captured in a system of concepts, which in general we call knowledge. When we say "I know Tao." it does not mean "I have a concept of Tao" but that "I have resembled Tao to a certain extent." If we stick to the logic of plain words, we can never reach Tao. May I post the interpretation of Chapter 1, which is ready now? I sincerely respect your frank attitude. Thanks.
Still you didn't reply my question. I will rephrase: How can one know something about the tao as long as tao is not known? You said: "it cannot be captured in a system of concepts" and so forth but how can you even say this if you actually don't know the tao?

eddie_wu

Re: Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

Post by eddie_wu »

Going back to thought's original post, my understanding of wu wei is not about whether or not to desire things. I thought wu wei means going with the flow, effortless action. I'm not sure which is the correct concept, or whether both are correct?

With regard to becoming a wondering monk I've found a great article at tao directory about wu wei by ted kardash. It's called "Purposeless Wondering"!

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laotan
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Re: Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

Post by laotan »

eddie_wu wrote:Going back to thought's original post, my understanding of wu wei is not about whether or not to desire things. I thought wu wei means going with the flow, effortless action. I'm not sure which is the correct concept, or whether both are correct?

With regard to becoming a wondering monk I've found a great article at tao directory about wu wei by ted kardash. It's called "Purposeless Wondering"!
Regarding the meaning of wu-wei, your understanding is correct. Don't go against the flow. Rather go with the flow.

As regarding the wondering monk I don't think this is a Taoist approach. Still I need to read the article when I have the time.

eddie_wu

Re: Difficulty Understanding Wu Wei

Post by eddie_wu »

Thanks for the clarification laotan. With regard to the article, it doesn't talk about being a wandering monk so don't worry. I just thought that it was a nice coincidence that the title included "wandering" and it is about wu wei! There's lots of great articles there for people new to Taoism as there is discussions on this forum!

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