What is Taoism

Here you can talk about the main Taoist topics such as Tao, Yin-Yang, Wu, Wu-Wei.

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taoistfriend
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:28 am

Re: What is Taoism

Post by taoistfriend »

As ususal you are confused by the words you use. For example: yes, indeed, one hundred battles may lead to a bad issue on the plane of ruling the country, but a battle - which is also yang - may lead to victory (because people are not exhausted amd the leader not arrogrant). What is wrong here is too many battles! That is, too much yang! But yang itself doesn't change in yin.
"but a battle which is also yang - may lead to victory": Yin is yang & yang is also yin here as Nguy Van Hau won (yang) & his enemy lost (yin).
Another story about yin & yang:
In the East, we often hear the story “Old man in Tai land losing a horse”:

In ancient China, in Tai land, there was an old man called Tai old man. His son often rode the horse. One day, suddenly, his horse disappeared.
The neighbours were touched with pity. They came to console him. He said:”Perhaps losing a horse is blessing.”
Several months later, his horse came back, bringing with it some good horses. The neighbours congratulated him. He said:”Having horses may be bad lucks. Perhaps this causes a calamity.”
Soon later, his son rode a horse, fell off and he broke his legs. They cured his legs well but he became disable. The neighbours came to console the old man. He said:”Perhaps this causes blessing.”
A year later, there was a war in Tai land. The army of the minority rushed in, therefore many strong men had to join the army. The war was fierce; many soldiers were killed and wounded. His son, because he was disable, hence, he stayed home. The father and the son took care of each other and lived pretty well.

Calamity is blessing and blessing is calamity. We don’t know what is the beginning. It is beyond our wills. What we think they are right, actually, they are wrong and what we think they are wrong, actually, they are right. Similarly, the good is the bad and the bad is the good; we cannot recognize them exactly. Consequently, we conclude: we cannot do bad, as the society will throw us in prison, or will punish us. But we cannot do good, too. What way do we follow , or say it another words, what is the truth ? Taoism has the answer: that is Tao.

joshuaslane
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Location: El Paso, Texas

Re: What is Taoism

Post by joshuaslane »

Friend,
You wrote:

"Men haven’t changed in 26 centuries. Men have skillfully used the time to create new technologies and weapons which have served only to accelerate his having his way while he ignores “The Way.”

This is so true. We see this all around us. Just look at man as he chases this way and that, from wars to stock market crashes to media blitzes. Sometimes I feel the imbalance so deep in my heart. Man's disregard for Mother Earth. Is a great consequence ensuing? I feel there must be a rebalancing coming...and perhaps soon.

Regards,

Brad

Shanti--
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: What is Taoism

Post by Shanti-- »

joshuaslane wrote:Friend,
You wrote:

"Men haven’t changed in 26 centuries. Men have skillfully used the time to create new technologies and weapons which have served only to accelerate his having his way while he ignores “The Way.”

This is so true. We see this all around us. Just look at man as he chases this way and that, from wars to stock market crashes to media blitzes. Sometimes I feel the imbalance so deep in my heart. Man's disregard for Mother Earth. Is a great consequence ensuing? I feel there must be a rebalancing coming...and perhaps soon.

Regards,

Brad

I agree with this. I"m curious though, isn't technology and weapons also within nature? If we have the capabilities to create it, and we have the capabilities of using it, and it's human nature to crave for more (greed), than isn't war and weapons totally natural (dominence & greed)? Does war over shadow peace or does peace overshadow war, and could we have balance with no war and greed and with just soley peace? It makes me think of a question like, can a leopard survive without it's prey? It has to eat, but sometimes it will "overkill" and waist most of it's prey out of greed (eyes bigger than stomache), it gets full and just leaves it behind, but then the vultures and other scavengers can eat the remains, which aids the scavengers in their existance (which we really do need I think, or else our roadkill would become very burdensome). Aren't humans kind of like that too? (figuratively speaking).
I'm not arguing, I am genuinly curiouse.

Namaste~
Shanti--

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laotan
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Re: What is Taoism

Post by laotan »

Shanti-- wrote:
joshuaslane wrote:Friend,
You wrote:

"Men haven’t changed in 26 centuries. Men have skillfully used the time to create new technologies and weapons which have served only to accelerate his having his way while he ignores “The Way.”

This is so true. We see this all around us. Just look at man as he chases this way and that, from wars to stock market crashes to media blitzes. Sometimes I feel the imbalance so deep in my heart. Man's disregard for Mother Earth. Is a great consequence ensuing? I feel there must be a rebalancing coming...and perhaps soon.

Regards,

Brad

I agree with this. I"m curious though, isn't technology and weapons also within nature? If we have the capabilities to create it, and we have the capabilities of using it, and it's human nature to crave for more (greed), than isn't war and weapons totally natural (dominence & greed)? Does war over shadow peace or does peace overshadow war, and could we have balance with no war and greed and with just soley peace? It makes me think of a question like, can a leopard survive without it's prey? It has to eat, but sometimes it will "overkill" and waist most of it's prey out of greed (eyes bigger than stomache), it gets full and just leaves it behind, but then the vultures and other scavengers can eat the remains, which aids the scavengers in their existance (which we really do need I think, or else our roadkill would become very burdensome). Aren't humans kind of like that too? (figuratively speaking).
I'm not arguing, I am genuinly curiouse.

Namaste~
Shanti--
Very good question. What Lao Tzu himself would answer? One may stop when it is too much of something. The problem is to know when it is too much.

peguisboy
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:32 am

Re: What is Taoism

Post by peguisboy »

Joseph wrote:
Men haven’t changed in 26 centuries. Men have skillfully used the time to create new technologies and weapons which have served only to accelerate his having his way while he ignores “The Way.”

As we study in light of TAO, especially the interrelationship of opposites, what lessons should we be learning from our apparent unremitting shortcomings?
There are no lessons we "should" be learning. That is to force one's opinion into action. If we use our mind as a teacher, then even the idiot has his own teacher. Why should we poke at the small frying fish? The weapons of ill omen are well hidden and the talk of them produces no fear. You have only your body to live out your years, how much more so does a nation?
When the houses become full of jewels, then the efforts to keep them increases. With more effort and more greed to maintain what is possessed, it will become complete. When enough is enough, the Way will prevail. When less is enough, the Way will produce more.
Relax under the tree in the Land-Of-Not-Even-Anything and watch the galloping steeds go nowhere fast

Taijitu_20
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Re: What is Taoism

Post by Taijitu_20 »

Joseph wrote:Lao Tzu wrote:
“The Tao of heaven is to take from those who have too much
And give to those who do not have enough.
Man’s way is different.
He takes from those who do not have enough
To give to those who already have too much.”

Men haven’t changed in 26 centuries. Men have skillfully used the time to create new technologies and weapons which have served only to accelerate his having his way while he ignores “The Way.” As we study in light of TAO, especially the interrelationship of opposites, what lessons should we be learning from our apparent unremitting shortcomings?
I am currently reading a book known as "Chuang Tzu: The Tao of Perfect Happiness". In the introduction, it talks about the different forms and aspects of Taoism. You previously stated that men create new things for their own personal gain. Hedonists, if I am correct, is simular in the aspect that they believe "what is good for me is good for the universe". So they believe in personal gain and falling into one's own desires. :roll:

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laotan
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Re: What is Taoism

Post by laotan »

ovlyvion wrote:
Joseph wrote:
In the future religion and science will unite into an organic unity. Objective methods of external observation can be combined with subjective methods of inner witnessing to create a new science that will transform the world. Osho says this will be the greatest moment in the history of the evolution of consciousness. So our technological and scientific progress is not meaningless. The scientists are not malicious, it's just that the technology has fallen into the hands of chimpanzee politicians who are in deep conspiracy with priests. Buddhist monks are not excepted, they are also exploiters, parasites.
I am not sure why religion and science must unite! What is the benefit? They don't apply to the same things and don't have the same aim. Religion is for spiritual liberation while science is for knowing what is the object of our senses. It is true that we find science with religion too. But this is another kind of science concerning occult phenomena.
The same with the idea of transforming the world. For Taoists the world transforms itself without our direct involvement. Why should we try to change it? It changes itself. Moreover it follows certain patterns so believing in a kind of an ultimate aim is pure stupidity. Why don't you leave the world as it is and try to access your inner awareness?
Please don't mistaken Taoism for modern science and Osho's sayings.

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laotan
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Re: What is Taoism

Post by laotan »

ovlyvion wrote: When you renounce something, you have to choose something. Enlightenment and perfection can only be choiceless. There is no such thing as enlightenment that either makes choices or is attained through choices.

Why not search for creative new methods to enlighten? And why not explore the whole universe and develop technologies to make life more beautiful, more convenient, and make contact with alien races, and spread a more enlightened civilization throughout the whole universe? If man remains on Earth, he will die. Man is doomed without science. And what is the need to die before one's time?


Also, the perfection of any system involves synthesis between any opposite sides. Earthly and unearthly, Taoism and Buddhism, male and female, science and religion, East and West--the perfection of man demands a synthesis. And the universe is always evolving toward perfection, never reaching. Once a being reaches perfection, he is no longer reborn. Perhaps when the whole universe reaches perfection,
Still making like more beautiful - as you said - is not in fact a choice? because you consider life is not so beautiful? So, in regards to what you said above, why don't you accept life as it is without thinking of change it?
Also since perfection is a synthesis between opposites sides, why don't you apply this to beautiful and ugly? Instead of make life more beautiful you should accept the less beautiful togehter with more beautiful and have a whole of life!
Things like this happen when you talk without thinking. That is, you repeat what other said without thinking at the meaning. Be careful!

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laotan
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Re: What is Taoism

Post by laotan »

ovlyvion wrote:First of all, Taoism is out of date. Bodhidharma, an enlightened Buddhist from India, went to China, where he encountered Taoism. There Taoism and Buddhism fused into Zen. So Taoism is not a complete vision.

Someone (like Buddha) who renounces the outer world in favor of the inner cannot be a whole man. When you renounce something, you have to choose something. Enlightenment and perfection can only be choiceless. There is no such thing as enlightenment that either makes choices or is attained through choices.
1. I am not sure why Taoism is out of date, as you said. The fact that it mingled with buddhism doesn't mean nothing. Things like this happen all the time.
2. Maybe Buddha is not a whole man (though he didn't renounces the outer world as you said) but he is a Buddha, that is, a person that is awakened. He realized the true condition of the person in the world and found the way out of confusion and rebirth. And it is sure that he had to choose between being or not being an awakened person. This is up to men choice.

the unspoken word
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Re: What is Taoism

Post by the unspoken word »

We are outside what we speak and we are inside what we not speak. Tao is inside us and Tao is about what we don't speak. So how can I tell you about Tao?

If I love you, I will not tell you. This is Tao. If you say everytime you met I love you to the person you may love this is not anymore Tao. Tao is inside and is silence.
Tao is not action.Tao is how to do something without doing anything.
He who knows stratagems needs not any plans.
He who knows how to lock uses no bolts, yet what has been locked cannot be opened.
He who knows how to tie uses no rope, yet what has been tied cannot be released.


If we talk, the words will leave us. If we don't talk, we keep the words inside. What is ouside is the paint and the label, is what it seems to be, is what is look like, an appearance, but the truth is inside, the esence, what really is. You want to look good or you want to be good?
What I show you, so anyone can see it , this is not Tao. What I say to you, so anyone can heard it, this is not Tao. Tao is what I do not speak, but this is what I am really.
PS
I'm not particulary taoist.I spent some moments talking with someone, somewhere. It was great. I remmemebered this experience and I searched the net about Taoism. Is not about theory knowledge, you know, but to met people who really know the truth.

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